Nice. A man is known by his fruits- a good tree produces good fruit. The ministry of living the Good Example is the best ministry of all.

I wish you all well on your spiritual journeys, and I send each of you my blessings for shalom bayis y tambien paz en su corazon.

Thanks for putting up with us kind sir. May I respond with the same?

A man is known by his fruits- a good tree produces good fruit. The ministry of living the Good Example is the best ministry of all.

Amen and Amen....but shhhhhh you just quoted scripture.

9 by Gideon MacLeish Thu, June 08, 2006 0:36 PM

See, and that is precisely the wrong response (by the preacher), Moderateman (although it is all too common. I can point you to numerous verses that indicate that God is a just God, and that, frankly, I can't tell you whether he's in heaven or not. But I can assure you that God would never send a person to Hell if they truly tried to live consistent unto their faith.

thank you gid, this has been a real sore spot with me for a long time.

Thanks for your thoughts LW. I guess I was looking more for a perspective period of me in the JU community not just the religious aspect. But still appreciate you taking the time and sharing with me. THANKS.

MM,

I'm with Gideon on this. I too have been hurt by pastors and people in the 'Christian Faith.' I can relate to your sore spot. Was told when I was molested by a 'youth leader' that this happened because I didn't have enough faith. That one is still healing.

AD

As far as I can tell, AD, you've been a polite and articulate participant in most of the conversations I've seen you involved in. I havent always agreed with what you've had to say but I havent't found your way of saying it disagreeable, if that makes any sense, lol.

I don't always agree with me? So how could I expect anyone else to 'always agree'

But I have yet to see a Jew, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Zoroastrian, a Wiccan, a Taoist, or member of any other faith use each and every conversation they engage in as an excuse to evangelize and attempt to convert others to their way of thinking.

You know I love you, LW, but I have two comments here:

1. You obviously have never read any of Sodaiho's work. There's a pretty clear movement to proselytize there.

2. I have met MANY Muslims who are as zealous in their evangelism as Christians. Most of them I happen to love dearly, even though we disagree on these fundamental issues, but they are certainly there.

I will readily concede that the evangelism mentality is not as pervasive in these other faiths than it is in Christianity (for good reason: many of these other faiths do not rely on the exclusivity of their teaching to achieve salvation), but the mentality most certainly DOES exist.

thank you gid, this has been a real sore spot with me for a long time.

I kinda figured, and that's why the back and forth when you misunderstood the comments on the article about my beliefs. I would certainly never mean to imply that you or your father are not going to heaven. I simply don't know, and can't offer assurance that either of you are, but neither can I say for certain that either of you aren't, based on my reading of the Bible.

I find it pretty aburd just how far some people will go in their beliefs. I have actually met Christians who go so far as to say that unless you belong to their particular church (denomination), you're not really a Christian and thus are going to Hell. Talk about moronic.

I try to respect other people's religious views until they start trying to convert me, and then I just become annoyed. The simple truth is that none of us, not a single one (religions, denominations, ect...) is likely to have it all right. Every single religion has been influenced by people's personal idea and beliefs and these have become incorporated into them. This is the reason there isn't a single Christian church, or a single Muslim group, or a single Buddhist group, or a single Jewish group. Every single one of these religious groups has sub groups who have some differences of belief.
In all likelyhood they all have at least some of it all wrong and so none have a right to proclaim themselves the only correct way.

I think I'll just be a Druid.

I kinda figured, and that's why the back and forth when you misunderstood the comments on the article about my beliefs. I would certainly never mean to imply that you or your father are not going to heaven. I simply don't know, and can't offer assurance that either of you are, but neither can I say for certain that either of you aren't, based on my reading of the Bible.

Gid, I am not aware of what exactly you beleive. I do know MM's background however I do not know the background of how closely he follows Torah. But I see John 1:14 where the word was made flesh. I see examples of how Yeshua (Jesus) is throughout the Torah. Eventhough Jews don't directly believe in Jesus they do believe in Torah which is the Messiah. That is my understanding. Not sure if that helps much. I just know Christians don't like to accept this. I don't know if you have ever tried to see this link. Not trying to start a religious debate just offering new idea?

Shabbat Shalom MM and Buddah.

AD

In a nutshell, they end up pushing people farther away from Christ, rather than bringing them into the fold. It's counterproductive, and I get very frustrated when certain people don't realize this. I'd ask KFC how many people she has personally managed to convert with her methods, if I thought for a minute she would answer truthfully.

First of LW, I never "bombard" any with scriptures especially if they are clearly not interested. Since when have I bombarded you? Your complaints from what I can see are regarding my conversations with others, not with you. While you may not like what I say when I use a verse here or there, it may speak to another. This thread is an example. Do I use quotes from scripture when warranted? Yes, just like you like to use your quotes and poetry. You have your ways and I have mine. The difference is, I don't knock you for it.

My heart beats for what God's heart beats for....souls, souls, souls. I will proclaim what I know to anyone that will listen for the rest of my life. It's part of who I am. I will not be silenced until God takes me home. I do and have offered hope to those who feel trapped in this life.

I've said many times, I'm not concerned about converting anyone. It's not my job. God converts. I don't have that power. I only am obedient in telling others about him. For some it will be a turn off. Yes, I agree. Clearly that's the case here with you. But for others they want more than this life offers and I have been able to show them things they've never heard before. How many? I don't know. I don't care about notches on my belt. It means nothing to me.

I'm not trying to hide anything. Your idea that I'm on a deceitful mission to convert the whole of JU is not true. Jeepers look at my name here. It's not exactly subtle now is it? I can see by just looking at our chosen JU handles that before a word was said, we are on opposite sides of the spectrum.

So be it. Don't worry. I'm not trying to convert you. God knows I don't have the stamina it takes for that.

1. You obviously have never read any of Sodaiho's work. There's a pretty clear movement to proselytize there.

Yes, and BTW I've written very little on the religious forum even tho I have to say it's probably my favorite topic. Unike Sodaiho who, if I remember correctly, only wrote under the religious forum my posting here at JU has brought me to almost all the different forums.

LW,

I personally haven't heard that song. But thank you for sharing it. The only thing I will say about your comment. You have a relationship with G-D and I accept that. We all have different paths. We are given different portions on our plates and we are responsible for it. To much is given much are the accountable for.

I'm going back to writing about horsies and duckies

Shovelheat's got it right: you'll know a person by their fruits,
which also means many of you left interesting impressions on me with your responses.

Seriously, thanks for the interesting discussion.

Baruch Hashem, a mis amigos, Buddah Moskowitz

Crazy things happen when I'm gone.

This is very real, more real to me than any of your other work. It hits swift and hard, and delivers your message in a wonderful way.

As-Salāmu `Alaykum.